- Introduction: A Spring Trip To Italy & France
- My Eurowings Discover Flight Was Canceled, And I Messed Up (Kind Of)
- Review: Eurowings Discover Business Class A330 (TPA-FRA)
- Review: Lufthansa Senator Lounge Frankfurt Airport (FRA)
- Review: Lufthansa A321 Business Class (FRA-VCE)
- Review: St. Regis Venice, Italy
- Review: Gritti Palace Venice, Marriott Luxury Collection
- Impressions From Our Trip To Venice, Italy
- Review: Trenitalia Business Class (Venice To Milan)
- Review: Bulgari Hotel Milan, Italy
- Review: Trenitalia Executive Class (Milan To Chambery)
- Review: Les Airelles Hotel Courchevel, France (WOW!)
- My Experience Learning To Ski In Courchevel
- Review: SWISS Senator Lounge Geneva Airport (GVA)
- Review: SWISS A220 Business Class (GVA-FRA)
- Review: Marriott Frankfurt Airport (FRA)
- Review: Luxx Lounge Frankfurt Airport (FRA)
- Review: Singapore Airlines A380 Suites (FRA-JFK)
To kick off our trip to Italy & France, we flew Eurowings Discover from Tampa to Frankfurt. For those not familiar, Eurowings Discover is Lufthansa’s new long haul leisure airline, so I was curious to check it out.
Unfortunately I found the Eurowings Discover experience to be underwhelming. Eurowings Discover has major operational reliability issues (our flight was canceled, so we had to be rebooked the next day), and on top of that, the crews simply aren’t trained to provide premium service.
While the crews were enthusiastic and extremely friendly, there were so many basic service mishaps, which I can only attribute to a lack of training. Let’s get right into the review…
In this post:
How I booked our Eurowings Discover business class tickets
Unfortunately Eurowings Discover isn’t a full Star Alliance member, meaning that most Star Alliance points currencies can’t be redeemed for travel on the airline. Eurowings Discover partners with Lufthansa Miles & More, and on top of that with Air Canada Aeroplan. I love how many airline partners Aeroplan has.
I was able to book the following in business class for 70,000 Aeroplan points plus $72.58 in taxes and fees per person:
03/25 4Y65 Tampa to Frankfurt departing 8:20PM arriving 10:30AM (+1 day)
03/26 LH328 Frankfurt to Venice departing 12:50PM arriving 2:05PM
Aeroplan points are easy to come by, as the program partners with American Express Membership Rewards, Capital One, and Chase Ultimate Rewards. On top of that, in the United States there’s the new Aeroplan® Credit Card (review), which is pretty lucrative.
Eurowings Discover check-in & lounge
We got to Tampa Airport (TPA) at around 6PM for our 8:20PM flight to Frankfurt. The Eurowings Discover check-in experience in Tampa was rather chaotic. Both Eurowings Discover (Lufthansa’s leisure airline) and Edelweiss (SWISS’ leisure airline) had flights from Tampa at around the same time, and shared one check-in area.
But between the Eurowings Discover flight from the previous day being canceled, plus Edelweiss allegedly having an aircraft swap, the check-in agents were dealing with lots of angry passengers. Fortunately the business class line was short, and we were quickly checked in.
I asked the agent to add our Known Traveler Numbers (KTN) to our reservations, since I wasn’t able to do so online during the process (this would get us TSA PreCheck). I was informed they weren’t able to do so, even though Eurowings Discover is a TSA PreCheck participating airline. Ugh, why not?
We were also informed that Eurowings Discover didn’t offer lounge access in Tampa — not exactly a premium experience (admittedly the only lounge in the terminal Eurowings Discover departs from is the American Admirals Club, so I can’t blame the airline for that too much).
With boarding passes in hand, we headed to Concourse F, which is a familiar concourse for me (given that it’s where American departs from). Without being able to use TSA PreCheck, we were stuck in quite a long line at security. There was signage for there being a priority lane, but the lane unfortunately wasn’t open. Security ended up taking around 30 minutes.
While Eurowings Discover didn’t offer lounge access, we lucked out in that there’s a Priority Pass restaurant in the terminal, which is Cafe by Mise en Place.
Frankly I find the layout of the restaurant plus the food & drink selection way better than what you’ll find in most US airline lounges anyway. We had dirty martinis, greek salad, and brussels sprouts.
Eurowings Discover business class boarding
Boarding was scheduled to start at 7:40PM at gate F87. The sun was just starting to set, and what a gorgeous evening it was. While Eurowings Discover’s livery isn’t all that exciting, I liked the cockpit “sunglasses.”
Sure enough, boarding started right on-time, with those needing extra time being invited to board first, followed by business class.
Eurowings Discover A330 business class cabin & seats
We boarded through the second set of doors, where we were greeted by a young and friendly crew, and pointed left into the business class cabin. The cabin looked familiar, as it’s identical to what you’d find in Lufthansa business class.
The plane we were flying, D-AIKB, is a roughly 18-year-old Airbus A330-300 that flew for Lufthansa until 2021, before being transferred to Eurowings Discover. As a matter of fact, I had flown this exact aircraft before, back when it flew for Lufthansa.
Eurowings Discover’s A330 business class consists of 30 seats, spread across five rows in a 2-2-2 configuration. On the plus side, it’s nice that a leisure airline has the same business class as a full service airline. Unfortunately Lufthansa also has an incredibly underwhelming business class, so I still wouldn’t call these seats great.
In this configuration, center seats are angled slightly toward one another.
Meanwhile the window seats are all angled slightly toward the fuselage. The ottomans for the seats are simply to the side of the seats in front, in order to save space.
I assigned us seats 5J & 5K, the window and aisle seats on the right side in the last row.
The seat controls were on the center console, and were easy to use (though they’re also easy to hit accidentally, since this is the area where you may naturally rest your arm or hand).
Also in the center armrest was the controller for the rather outdated entertainment system. You have to use the little black button in the center as a “mouse,” and I don’t find that to be that great of a system.
There was a small fully enclosed storage compartment near the ottoman, though it’s not really big enough to be practical.
The tray table also folded out from the center armrest, and could be folded over in half.
In front of and underneath the center armrest were two AC power outlets.
Overhead consoles had reading lights, though no individual air nozzles. The plane just generally didn’t feel very clean or fresh, and even the overhead consoles had all kinds of dirt marks and scratches on them.
So yeah, in terms of hard product you’d more or less think you’re on Lufthansa. The only thing different is that the headrest cover has the Eurowings Discover logo rather than the Lufthansa logo.
I also want to mention that not all Eurowings Discover jets feature this business class product. Some Eurowings Discover A330s used to fly for SWISS subsidiary Edelweiss, and those planes have a staggered business class configuration, similar to what you’ll find in SWISS business class.
Our flight the previous day was supposed to feature those seats (and I was looking forward to trying that seat, since it’s different), but unfortunately that flight got canceled.
Eurowings Discover business class amenities
In terms of amenities, Eurowings Discover business class was also mighty similar to Lufthansa business class. Waiting at each seat on boarding were a pillow and blanket, both of which were pretty decent.
There was also a bottle of water in the storage compartment at each seat.
Shortly after settling in, each business class passenger was offered an amenity kit. Interestingly this was just the standard Lufthansa one, down to the logo. The kit was solid, and had socks, eyeshades, earplugs, a dental kit, a mint, a refreshing towel, and two creams from L’Occitane.
Each passenger was also offered a menu for the flight.
Pre-departure beverages were a bit more complicated. There was the choice of champagne, orange juice, or water, though the crew served these really inefficiently. It took the crew nearly 30 minutes to serve these to passengers, but even then we weren’t offered any drinks.
Finally once the main cabin door closed we asked if we could have some drinks, at which point the flight attendant acted surprised that we hadn’t been offered anything.
Eurowings Discover departure from Tampa
At 8:10PM it was announced that boarding was complete, and a few moments later the main cabin door closed. Business class was full, with the exception of the four other seats in row five. See, there’s a method to my seat selection preferences. 😉
The captain made his welcome aboard announcement around this time, informing us of our flight time of 8hr45min to Frankfurt.
At around 8:15PM we began our pushback — I could see the Edelweiss A340-300 a few gates over.
Around this time the manual safety demonstration was performed. I guess a safety video wasn’t in Eurowings Discover’s budget, given that it launched during the pandemic.
By 8:30PM we were cleared for takeoff on runway 1L. I couldn’t help but reflect on how this was my first long haul flight straight out of Tampa in over two decades, even though I’ve taken hundreds of flights out of the airport over the past many years. The last time I flew long haul out of the airport was on Condor when I was a kid, back when there was still a smoking section on the plane.
Eurowings Discover A330 entertainment & Wi-Fi
As we climbed out, I browsed the disappointing entertainment selection. Eurowings Discover’s entertainment system is similar to Lufthansa’s, and that’s not good.
Not only is the screen as such quite low quality, but the selection was also limited. There were 77 TV shows and 66 movies, and frankly very few of them were particularly mainstream or new. The airline definitely paid for the budget IFE selection.
So I just watched the moving map for much of the flight.
Oddly Eurowings Discover can’t even seem to get that right. The map shows an A340-300 (based on the four engines), but that’s not even a plane the airline flies. Huh?
Eurowings Discover’s website suggests that some planes have Wi-Fi, but I guess this wasn’t one of them. While there was a Wi-Fi portal, you could just use it to view the buy on board menu (for economy), and to read some electronic journals.
The plane has Wi-Fi installed on it, given that the plane had Wi-Fi when Lufthansa flew it. So I’m not sure if it just hasn’t been turned on as a cost saving measure, or what?
Eurowings business class service
Usually I write about service on an airline toward the end of a review, after I write about the meal services, etc. In this case I’ll write about service at the beginning of the review, because unfortunately this is what defined the flight.
Here’s the thing — the crew was exceptionally friendly. They were young and clearly so enthusiastic to be working as long haul business class cabin crew. But they also had no clue what they were doing. And I want to be clear upfront that this is 100% the fault of management and the people doing training, rather than the crew as such.
This gets at the very reason Eurowings Discover exists, as it’s an attempt by Lufthansa to lower labor costs, as these crews have all been hired under cheaper contracts. I imagine part of that cost cutting is also not providing as much training. This was basically like flying with British Airways’ “Mixed Fleet” crews back in the day, when they first started being hired.
What was the problem?
- This was an 8hr45min flight, and the two meal services combined took 4hr25min, more than half the flight; dinner shouldn’t take 2hr10min, and a breakfast served on a single tray shouldn’t start 2hr15min before landing
- In the most amateur move ever, the crew didn’t close the window shades after the meal service, and since it was dark out, most passengers didn’t either; the cabin started to get light around three hours before landing, which woke most people up (and then even then the crew didn’t make an attempt to close the window shades)
In terms of the ability to get rest, this flight felt like this “Great British Air” flight, minus the force-fed truffles, of course.
Those weren’t the only issues, but those were my two biggest gripes. Business class is all about being able to arrive well rested, and the speed of service on an overnight flight, plus the environment, is a big part of that.
Eurowings Discover business class dinner
On this flight dinner was served after takeoff and breakfast before landing, and you can find the menu below.
Below is the drink list for the flight.
After takeoff, service was very slow to get started.
Warm towels were distributed around 45 minutes after takeoff.
About an hour after takeoff drinks were served. I ordered the South African sauvignon blanc plus a sparkling water. Some cashews were served to go along with it.
It was another 30 minutes until the starter was served. There were three starter choices. I selected the yellow beet carpaccio with smoked salmon and french cocktail sauce, which was pretty good. That was served with a side salad that had feta cheese, cherry tomatoes, and sesame ginger dressing. I was also offered a selection of bread, and chose a pretzel roll.
Ford went with the vegetarian starter, which was caramelized goat cheese on fennel-orange salad with cranberries.
It’s interesting to note that the cutlery was Lufthansa branded. It’s funny how Eurowings Discover only sort of has its own branding, while many service items are from Lufthansa.
It was another 20 minutes or so until the main courses were served. For my main course I ordered the cajun style sautéed shrimp with cream sauce, jasmine quinoa rice, and broccoli. The shrimp were pretty decent, but the rice was way overcooked, to the point that it was chewy. Also, the presentation wasn’t great, but that’s pretty standard for these airplane casserole-style dishes.
Ford had the panfried chicken breast with mushroom cream sauce. Ford said his dish was revolting, and that the chicken was borderline pink.
There was then supposed to be the choice of caramel cheesecake on raspberry coulis, or a cheese plate, including manchego and gorgonzola cheese with grapes and crackers. Unfortunately they had run out of the dessert, so we just shared a cheese plate (mainly for the picture — we weren’t hungry at this point).
Talk about a drawn out and mediocre meal. I’d also note that there just generally seemed to be a lot of confusion with the service. The two flight attendants working business class kept swapping dishes between aisles, because one cart would have something, while the other wouldn’t.
The way they did it was even kind of entertaining. For example, the guy working our aisle would ask the flight attendant working the other aisle whether she had a chicken dish by sort of doing the chicken dance with his arms. Lol…
Eurowings Discover business class bed
By the time the meal was done, we were around 6hr35min from Frankfurt. We reclined our seats and tried to get some rest. Of course these business class seats were familiar to us. I find them to be fine if you’re traveling with someone, since you can be close to them, but otherwise they lack privacy. At least there’s not the issue of having to squeeze your feet into a small footwell.
I fell asleep almost immediately, but was then woken up an hour later by the flight attendant, as I had apparently completely taken my mask off in my sleep. Oops. I was of course embarrassed, as I’ve taken quite a few flights since the start of the pandemic, and never had that happen.
I’m not a great airplane sleeper, and once I’m awake I often struggle to fall back asleep, especially when the cabin is warm, (and on top of that, having to wear a mask doesn’t help). About an hour later the cabin started to get bright, and at that point I really struggled to sleep. So I eventually decided to just get up, and got some (offline) work done on my laptop.
Eurowings Discover A330 business class lavatories
The Eurowings Discover A330 had three lavatories around business class — two in the galley behind the cabin, and one in front of the cabin. The lavatories were pretty basic, aside from L’Occitane hand lotion.
Somehow there was no water in the lavatories for the last three hours of the flight, so if anyone wanted to wash their hands, they had to use bottled water. Sheesh.
Eurowings Discover business class breakfast
Breakfast service started ridiculously early, 2hr15min before landing. At that point warm towels were distributed, plus the choice of orange juice or water.
Then the crew came through the cabin to extend each passenger’s tray table and place a tablecloth on it, and then… nothing happened for 45 minutes.
Finally around 90 minutes before landing breakfast was served. The meal as such was solid, and consisted of greek yogurt with muesli, fresh pineapple, orange, strawberries, and grapes, smoked ham and cream cheese, and scrambled eggs with chive, tomato, and mushrooms. Then there was the choice of rolls or croissants, with jam, Nutella, etc. (I couldn’t help but take one of the Nutella packets, since I find them to be so cute).
I appreciate that much like Lufthansa, Eurowings Discover serves coffee in large cups, so you actually get a decent amount.
Milk and sugar were presented to us in a cute way.
Eurowings Discover arrival in Frankfurt
At 9:30AM Frankfurt time the captain was back on the PA to inform us that we’d be landing in 45-50 minutes. It was a shockingly gorgeous spring morning in Germany, with sunny skies and warm temperatures.
We started our descent about 30 minutes before landing, and had great views on approach (unfortunately the glare plus dirty windows made it hard to get good pictures of it).
The approach took a bit longer than expected, and we ended up touching down in Frankfurt at 10:25AM,
From there we had a roughly 10 minute taxi to our arrival gate. I’ve always had a strong emotional connection to Lufthansa and Frankfurt Airport, so whenever taxiing at the airport, my eyes are glued out the window.
It was so nice to see the Lufthansa Airbus A340-600 once again, as the plane only recently returned to service after being grounded during the pandemic.
And you can’t beat the gorgeousness of the Boeing 747-8!
Aside from that, there were a couple of Eurowings Discover Airbus A330s, plus Condor Boeing 767s.
We arrived at our gate at 10:35AM. As we disembarked, we had great views of our plane as well.
We headed to the Lufthansa Senator Lounge, prior to our Lufthansa Airbus A321 business class flight to Venice.
Bottom line
Unfortunately our Eurowings Discover flight left a bit to be desired. On the plus side, the Eurowings Discover experience is on the surface similar to the Lufthansa business class experience. I wouldn’t exactly say that’s great, but I guess it’s not terrible if a leisure airline has the same business class as a global full service airline.
The problem is everything else. Eurowings Discover isn’t operationally reliable (we were delayed by a day, and that was the fourth cancelation on the route in four weeks), the plane wasn’t in great shape, the Wi-Fi wasn’t turned on, and the crew was really inexperienced and inefficient, though friendly.
If Eurowings Discover could get these issues fixed, it might be fairly decent. However, that’s easier said than done, because these kinds of issues are much more common on small leisure airlines (a limited fleet means operational issues aren’t fixed as easily, crews are paid less and don’t have much experience, etc.).
The worst part of Eurowings Discover is that this reduced service is offered at standard Lufthansa pricing. The cheapest roundtrip business class fare right now from Tampa to Frankfurt is ~$4,400. This isn’t a low cost carrier offering value for customers, but rather it’s obviously just trying to offer more value to shareholders, in the form of reduced operating costs.
What do you make of the Eurowings Discover business class experience?
Two weeks ago, I booked flights for my wife and myself from MUC to SFO and Orlando to Frankfurt (the latter with EY Discover, no other LH choice). I didn't receive a booking confirmation (as usual), so after 10 days I called LH senator service and they found out that although I still had my booking number the whole booking had disappeared. So we had to redo the procedure, and I received the booking confirmation...
Two weeks ago, I booked flights for my wife and myself from MUC to SFO and Orlando to Frankfurt (the latter with EY Discover, no other LH choice). I didn't receive a booking confirmation (as usual), so after 10 days I called LH senator service and they found out that although I still had my booking number the whole booking had disappeared. So we had to redo the procedure, and I received the booking confirmation shortly after. But surprise, without seats that had been confirmed during that phone booking already. So I called again, and while they booked the seats for my wife, the seats for me didn't exist anymore. They peromised to fix it. Later that day, I received the booking confirmation, but my seats weren't still there. At the same time, the total cost have been deduced from our bank account. But surprise, they were 300 Euro higher than originally agreed. So I called again and found out that they have also invoiced the seats (preferred ones, first rows in economy), surprise because as a lifetime senator these seats should be free. But I had to learn that EY Discover even charges senators for these seats. I couldn't find any such information on the Internet, nor on the LH nor EY side, so it came to me as another surprise. All in all, there are still website/system errors on the LH/EY side (I found a few more when I tried to enter our US immigration data) that even LH senator booking agents didn't know about. I hope I won't experience more surprises, especially during my travels in two months. . . . .
I’m here because I was wondering what on earth Ew Discover is. Air Canada is offering west coast to Frankfurt or London J for 69K, so I may well see if they’ve improved any since your flight.
Our flight was changed from Lufthansa airlines to this. We paid the business class price and this looks much less than this with a much smaller plane. We booked and are flying out of Air Canada and the return was supposed to be Lufthansa. I will see if we can move to a later flight with a real business class. So disapointing. I appreciate the review. The seat guru shows this class as premium economy....
Our flight was changed from Lufthansa airlines to this. We paid the business class price and this looks much less than this with a much smaller plane. We booked and are flying out of Air Canada and the return was supposed to be Lufthansa. I will see if we can move to a later flight with a real business class. So disapointing. I appreciate the review. The seat guru shows this class as premium economy. At one time did they change this to business from premium economy,
I wonder?
I certainly hope Eurowings gets their act together soon. We fly Eurowings from SLC to Frankfurt in about a month - looking forward to a great flight and restful experience .
Thanks so much for your review!
Hi Ben,
Quick question here. I just booked FRA-CUN and CUN-MUC on LH in Premium Economy.
Once ticketed I saw that the flights are operated by Eurowings Discover (LH codrshare).
Can I expect to collect my miles as a member of United MileagePlus??
Thanks,
David
The whole Airline is massively problematic.
Staffing is "young,cheap and inexperienced" all along.
Their chief pilot? Came from Germanwings afaik(a closed short haul subsidiary of Lufthansa), had zero experience on the A330 and zero experience on long haul.
....and even talked about that happily on German TV.
While Lufthansa and Eurowings often is without alternatives in Europe I will definitely avoid Discover
To me, none of this sounds too bad. I'm considering booking YYC-FRA-BJV (bodrum) on Eurowings and LH and plan to go ahead. I'm booking for my family of 4, so sorta need to take what i can get. But the flight hits most of the things I prioritize: 1. Flight from as close to West coast to europe as i can get (i hate flying to east coast for a europe flight); 2. Evening flight...
To me, none of this sounds too bad. I'm considering booking YYC-FRA-BJV (bodrum) on Eurowings and LH and plan to go ahead. I'm booking for my family of 4, so sorta need to take what i can get. But the flight hits most of the things I prioritize: 1. Flight from as close to West coast to europe as i can get (i hate flying to east coast for a europe flight); 2. Evening flight so family sleeps; 3. Lie-flat seats. Slow meals aren't great, but i can deal. I had the same issue on JAL 2 years ago w/ all lights turned on for bfast 2+ hours from landing. 2-2-2 seating actually works great with kids and i prefer it to 1-2-1.
Does anyone know if the bulkhead seats in biz allow you to move/swivel the ice screen like it does in all of the non bulkhead rows? I’ve noticed in pictures that the bulkhead screens are flush mounted next to each other and look much different than the screens in the other rows.
From the review you even stated that this is a low cost airline, with that being send there should be no complaints. How much cheaper was this ticket vs one on LH? Seat looks nice, cabin and plane looked nice and clean, food and drinks look nice.... what's the problem?
Not reliable at all. I hope this flight will be switched to a lufthansa flight as soon as possible otherwise shutted down better no service than not reliable one
Lufty used to use the AA lounge in Tampa when it operated the flight. They must have cut that cost. Does Edelweiss use the AA lounge or none?
I don't know what happened to The International Club lounge which BA used to use (it was terrible). BA moved to the AA lounge and The International Club closed. Eurowings and Edelweiss could combine and go back into the Club but I guess they don't want the cost.
Hi Ben,
I've noticed you tend to always select seats in the last row of Business, could I ask why?
Many thanks!
James
I have never been bothered by FAs on flights to Europe due to not wearing a mask (basically I take it off after take off and do not put it back on till landing). On LH, AF & BA
Honestly I feel like your tone in recent articles (this, senators lounge, United from Kona) have really felt exceedingly entitled and is unlike your previous tones and coming off exceedingly entitled (very the points guy, whom I've stopped reading).
I am all for being critical when it is necessary, but it is now coming off entitled. This is why I stopped reading TPG and I hope to not stop reading OMAAT.
Is something going...
Honestly I feel like your tone in recent articles (this, senators lounge, United from Kona) have really felt exceedingly entitled and is unlike your previous tones and coming off exceedingly entitled (very the points guy, whom I've stopped reading).
I am all for being critical when it is necessary, but it is now coming off entitled. This is why I stopped reading TPG and I hope to not stop reading OMAAT.
Is something going on that has made you feel so bitter? It is crazy you made it through covid and kept your normal attitude and now that travel is becoming easier you have had this negative to e shift.
@ Kevin B -- I appreciate the feedback and certainly don't want to come across that way. Nothing has changed, I've just had a couple of not-great experiences.
First of all, regarding United from Kona, I'm not sure what I was bitter about? I rated the flight highly, and said it was a good experience overall. A week before that I reviewed my trip on Turkish and SAS, and had good ratings across the board.
...@ Kevin B -- I appreciate the feedback and certainly don't want to come across that way. Nothing has changed, I've just had a couple of not-great experiences.
First of all, regarding United from Kona, I'm not sure what I was bitter about? I rated the flight highly, and said it was a good experience overall. A week before that I reviewed my trip on Turkish and SAS, and had good ratings across the board.
In the case of Eurowings Discover, do you really want me to rate a product highly when the airline is charging the same prices as Lufthansa mainline while delivering a lot less? The airline has no operational reliability. In the month leading up to my flight, 27% of the flights on the route were canceled. In the six flights since I took this trip, three flights on the route were delayed by around two hours. I think I'd be doing readers a disservice by being overly positive about something like that.
But I hear you, and will consider your feedback going forward. My next flight is in Singapore Suites, so I trust that will be a more positive experience. ;-)
Thank you for being honest — I was looking at this route/carrier for a summer trip. Frankly, your taste has always been different than mine but I didn’t note a tone in this post.
Please continue to provide honest reviews and do not sugarcoat them. After reading this, my flight was switched to this airline and we paid a premium price and not for this. I'll be contacting the airlines. Thank you for being honest
Every flight I have taken, and that includes Southwest, has had Crazy, Rich Asians on the IFE. Good to know it is not only me.
Thanks for this review, I think that asfor Lufthansa we will avoid the "litle sister".
Wich amused me a lot is the french dressing wich is more a mix between Greece and Sweeden than french....dont talk about the spanish proposal with cranberries
Thanks for an interesting review and I honestly have no interest stepping onboard Eurowings Discover anytime soon. The catering looked nice and even better than Lufthansa, especially the hot breakfast option now. For some reasons, LH has downgraded its catering on its transatlantic business class with a combined starter/entree course, and a reduced pre-arrival meal offering. I am surprised to see a hot breakfast offered. The seats are unimpressive and given its price tag, I...
Thanks for an interesting review and I honestly have no interest stepping onboard Eurowings Discover anytime soon. The catering looked nice and even better than Lufthansa, especially the hot breakfast option now. For some reasons, LH has downgraded its catering on its transatlantic business class with a combined starter/entree course, and a reduced pre-arrival meal offering. I am surprised to see a hot breakfast offered. The seats are unimpressive and given its price tag, I will stick with other European airlines.
Condor, which Eurowings wants to imitate, is so much better with catering and service. No wonder LH wants to stop letting DE to use its domestic connection flights. Condor with its new A330s will feature better food and service and I will stick with DE for the near future. Eurowings Discover needs to step up or else it will just be another failed leisure airline experiment.
Thanks for flying 4Y so we won't have to. But I am sure that those Aeroplan can be better spent elsewhere. I hope flying AC will be on your to-do list soon especially AC's Signature Suites are now reopened.
Signature Suites are only open to Endre and other paying customers . They are not open if you travel on an award ticket. (?)
Still better food than on any American carrier. Rating this 2.5 and the recent domestic "first" shocker 4/5 just does not make any sense. Closing your own window blinds is still possible too, as well as asking for a drink...
The Lufthansa group is a joke though, especially with their supposedly 'five star rating', based on the vaporware that is their new 777X business seat. I would avoid them as the plague, since you just get ripped on every flight you take...
I think I might know why the flight map shows an A340. Eurowings used to have them in their long-haul fleet around 2019. They were operated but Brussels, but with a Eurowings livery. Which would also match the one on your screen with no mention of “Discover” as that brand wasn’t born yet back then.
Still no idea why this would be shown on an A330 flight but that’s probably at least the reason why the 3D model exists.
I agree with the sentiment of most comments.
First, thanks for the review!
Second, I wouldn't expect much more. Yes, I get that the price is in line with most normal business class but as you said they were almost full so seems that they are pricing right. Considering that even LH's Y product is nothing to write home about, I wouldn't expect anything good from a subsidiary.
I now also live in the...
I agree with the sentiment of most comments.
First, thanks for the review!
Second, I wouldn't expect much more. Yes, I get that the price is in line with most normal business class but as you said they were almost full so seems that they are pricing right. Considering that even LH's Y product is nothing to write home about, I wouldn't expect anything good from a subsidiary.
I now also live in the area and I would not even consider Eurowings or Edelweiss. Too bad we have very limited choice here. TPA is an hour drive for me anyway as I'm near SRQ so sounds like the best option for people in this area is either drive to MCO or MIA or connect domestically.
@ Alex -- I'm not sure I'd have the same conclusion regarding "they were almost full so seems that they are pricing right." Keep in mind the flight the day before was canceled, so two planes worth of passengers were booked on this flight. My aunt took this flight a couple of weeks earlier, and said there were 80 people on the plane.
I'm not reading into current load factors too much one way or...
@ Alex -- I'm not sure I'd have the same conclusion regarding "they were almost full so seems that they are pricing right." Keep in mind the flight the day before was canceled, so two planes worth of passengers were booked on this flight. My aunt took this flight a couple of weeks earlier, and said there were 80 people on the plane.
I'm not reading into current load factors too much one way or another given the weird times we live in, but I don't necessarily conclude Eurowings Discover is doing well...
You certainly took a bullet for us, switching from a Singapore A380 suite to Eurowings just so you could write a review!
Your experience is much in line with I have experienced with them on 3 trips to Namibia. Mostly underwhelming (but given that I'm usually on United, there were several areas where Eurowings was superior). Our first three flights all ended up different configurations (including the staggered Swiss layout), though the last 3...
You certainly took a bullet for us, switching from a Singapore A380 suite to Eurowings just so you could write a review!
Your experience is much in line with I have experienced with them on 3 trips to Namibia. Mostly underwhelming (but given that I'm usually on United, there were several areas where Eurowings was superior). Our first three flights all ended up different configurations (including the staggered Swiss layout), though the last 3 all had the 5x6 layout.
I thought their drinks were pretty good (I really like their non-alcoholic passion fruit punch at boarding), as well as the appetizers. Main course much less so. And interested to see that your breakfast was slightly different - on all 5 flights we had smoked salmon with horseradish. I don't know if it's the route or the season.
Finally, my husband and I found the center seats to be more comfortable for sleeping than the pair along the window.
And final "finally" - they were much more lax with masks on my flights. Some passengers never had their mask on at all. So I am surprised they woke you.
You knew what to expect!.
The actual food catered looks pretty decent considering it's a 'low cost' carrier and all - on par with an average biz class service offering pre COVID
I guess being a leisure route the 'arrive rested' / maximize sleep part seems to be less of a management focus
I'm not sure I can take you seriously, @Lucky, after now reading to reviews wherein you share that you've eaten Brussel sprouts before a long flight!!!! ;)
@ Ralph4878 -- Lol, am I the only one who doesn't have brussels sprouts issues?
@Lucky perhaps! Though I must say that in both recent reviews, they did look delicious!
This reminds me to buy them next time I go grocery shopping. I used to pan fry them with spices (after steaming them first). I completely forgot about it until this Brussely subject came up. Yay!
Never ate them as a child. As a result I'm very fond of them. Now I'll steam them with oyster sauce. Sensational!
As others have said, business class on LH Group airlines is low value at high price. Starting with the reliability, the poor hard product, the slow service on night flights, etc. It is a race to the bottom.
How do you keep track of which plane you've flown?
@ Nate nate -- I don't track registration codes as closely as others, but for whatever reason the code sounded familiar when I saw it. I then went back through pictures from my travels, and saw I had taken a picture of this plane prior to a SEA-FRA flight.
Ben, are you aware of my.flightradar24 where you can keep track of all the flights you have flown?
@ echino -- I am, but since I didn't get started when I was young, I feel like there's no point in starting now.
It feels like LH continues to fail up. A lot of bloggers like to talk about the Halo Effect surrounding EK, but why do they leave out LH? LH has a bottom-tier J product, Y is fairly standard and no frills, but they have an admittedly great F product. Beyond the F product, they're otherwise another contender in the "race to the bottom" in nearly every other facet. Yet, I feel like I can't escape...
It feels like LH continues to fail up. A lot of bloggers like to talk about the Halo Effect surrounding EK, but why do they leave out LH? LH has a bottom-tier J product, Y is fairly standard and no frills, but they have an admittedly great F product. Beyond the F product, they're otherwise another contender in the "race to the bottom" in nearly every other facet. Yet, I feel like I can't escape this notion from bloggers that somehow LH is this magical flying beast that's just so great. It's been about two years since I was on an LH TATL then intra-Europe flight and it was okay. Just okay - if you don't consider 2x2x2 business seats. Not aggressively bad, but definitely not better than anything you'd get on the US3 - especially considering their intra-Europe biz product. Why don't we finally call a spade a spade?
@ DCA Will Always Be "National" -- That's a fair point. And I can tell you that as much as I'd love to believe that Lufthansa is a great global airline (I am a bit biased, since I have an emotional connection to the airline), it's not. Lufthansa (mainline) is operationally reliable and has a great first class product, but otherwise the airline is subpar compared to peers.
Worst of all, Lufthansa is losing ground...
@ DCA Will Always Be "National" -- That's a fair point. And I can tell you that as much as I'd love to believe that Lufthansa is a great global airline (I am a bit biased, since I have an emotional connection to the airline), it's not. Lufthansa (mainline) is operationally reliable and has a great first class product, but otherwise the airline is subpar compared to peers.
Worst of all, Lufthansa is losing ground to competitors. Airlines like Air France, KLM, and even British Airways, are improving considerably. Meanwhile at Lufthansa, all we have is the promise of a new business class product some day. And we all know it will be many years before it's available on a widespread basis.
Actually Ben I also think that you are biased but in a different way. I often have the feeling that you like criticizing Lufthansa or that you are harder on them than on other carriers.
But yes, Lufthansa is not as good as it used to be or as we remember it. But often I think it is not as bad as described here.
(Well, the review is about Eurowings Discover but the comments section is all mixed)
I think you're looking at this airline from the wrong perspective. It's a low cost venture flying to leisure destinations.
Presumably the J pax are German holidaymakers finishing up a week of golf or suntanning. They don't need to arrive rested and refreshed to make an important business meeting on arrival. I doubt they care if there's no wifi or if the meal service is slow - they're on holidays, not trying to close...
I think you're looking at this airline from the wrong perspective. It's a low cost venture flying to leisure destinations.
Presumably the J pax are German holidaymakers finishing up a week of golf or suntanning. They don't need to arrive rested and refreshed to make an important business meeting on arrival. I doubt they care if there's no wifi or if the meal service is slow - they're on holidays, not trying to close a big deal.
If you compare this to say, Norwegian premium or La Compaigne it looks excellent - fully flat seats and proper J catering (champagne and the breakfast looks excellent).
I think there is absolutely a market for this and the experience is about what I expected it to be though maybe it should be rebranded as 'Discover Premium'.
@ John T -- I hear you, and largely agree. But I think it's important to point out the biggest difference between Eurowings Discover and Norwegian or La Compagnie, and that's pricing.
Eurowings Discover business class isn't cheap. The lowest roundtrip business class fare from Tampa to Frankfurt is around $4,400, and it goes way up from there. This route used to be operated by Lufthansa mainline, and I haven't noticed that pricing has...
@ John T -- I hear you, and largely agree. But I think it's important to point out the biggest difference between Eurowings Discover and Norwegian or La Compagnie, and that's pricing.
Eurowings Discover business class isn't cheap. The lowest roundtrip business class fare from Tampa to Frankfurt is around $4,400, and it goes way up from there. This route used to be operated by Lufthansa mainline, and I haven't noticed that pricing has been lowered in any way.
So I agree with you that there could be a market for Lufthansa having a Norwegian-style airline, especially with the kinds of leisure travelers taking this flight, but it needs to be priced accordingly. Instead Eurowings Discover has Lufthansa pricing with even less service.
This was your first long haul flight out of TPA? I may be wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that you used to fly Condor from TPA to Frankfurt as a kid.
Also, you haven't taken the BA flight to London from Tampa. TPA was my home airport to as a kid and I loved seeing the BA 777 at the gate whenever you would drive into the airport. That flight is still on my bucket list :)
@ WB -- You are very, very observant, well done! You're totally right, as a kid I frequently flew out of Tampa on Condor. I updated the post to reflect that. Thanks for catching it! Haven't done the BA flight out of Tampa, though. Always love looking at the plane while driving into the airport, though, given that it's parked right by the road.
The sight of the 777 right there on the corner always makes me smile. I've taken this flight multiple times and its always a breeze. Pre-Covid I was able to snag steerage tickets for under 400 rt. *sigh*
Has Lufthansa discontinued mainline flights to TPA? I know they used to operate Cityline A330s and A340s to Tampa since 2016, and may have even operated mainline A330s when they first started service.
@ JB -- Indeed, over the years TPA has had mainline and Cityline, but now Lufthansa exclusively operates Eurowings Discover from Frankfurt to Tampa. And frankly that's probably fitting, given that it's a very leisure crowd.
It’s a leisure-focused airline serving a leisure destination so while yes it does seem they missed the mark on the basics, having the finer points of premium seduce like branded cutlery seems a wildly optimistic expectation. Eurowings Discover exists to shuttle Germans to/from sunny holiday destinations with lower overhead costs than mainline LH, that’s it. That they even have a full lay-flat J cabin is likely out of convenience - otherwise I’d expect a more...
It’s a leisure-focused airline serving a leisure destination so while yes it does seem they missed the mark on the basics, having the finer points of premium seduce like branded cutlery seems a wildly optimistic expectation. Eurowings Discover exists to shuttle Germans to/from sunny holiday destinations with lower overhead costs than mainline LH, that’s it. That they even have a full lay-flat J cabin is likely out of convenience - otherwise I’d expect a more prem econ-like setup a la Air Caraïbes / French Bee.
@ tipsyinmadras -- To be clear, the lack of consistent branding didn't in any way bother me, I was just pointing it out because I found it interesting (same as the four engine plane on the map). My issues with the experience were the more important points, like reliability, service quality, etc.
And you're right, it's nice that Eurowings Discover at least has a "real" business class, and not just premium economy. Then again,...
@ tipsyinmadras -- To be clear, the lack of consistent branding didn't in any way bother me, I was just pointing it out because I found it interesting (same as the four engine plane on the map). My issues with the experience were the more important points, like reliability, service quality, etc.
And you're right, it's nice that Eurowings Discover at least has a "real" business class, and not just premium economy. Then again, it's priced accordingly. Prices haven't really dropped compared to when Lufthansa operated the route.
Re the branding & service: Eurowing Discover (not related to Eurowings, which is also part of the LH group and flies the "non-premium" routes in Europe) is a low-cost way for LH Group to gobble up market share and profit on leisure routes, hence the not so well trained staff, the mixed branding, and the ageing fleet.
I should note that EWD is not the first time LH has tried to enter the leisure travel...
Re the branding & service: Eurowing Discover (not related to Eurowings, which is also part of the LH group and flies the "non-premium" routes in Europe) is a low-cost way for LH Group to gobble up market share and profit on leisure routes, hence the not so well trained staff, the mixed branding, and the ageing fleet.
I should note that EWD is not the first time LH has tried to enter the leisure travel sector, with Condor, Cityline and others preceeding EWD, including EW Europe. In most cases LH is either folding them back into the LH brand or dissolving them. German holidaymakers are used to a lot worse than EWD is offering, since Condor and Tuifly offer vastly inferior long-haul products on leisure routes plus lack the ability to earn or use miles&more miles for those so inclined (although Condor does sometimes allow this). Plus, as others have observed, they are on holiday so won't mind a long service or little sleep aboard.
Thanks for taking one for the team.
I was going to say the same.
For many years my wife and I looked forward to flying on LH. We had some great experiences with them. It's sad to see how LH has lost its way.
Sounds like it might be better to fly this airline to the US than to Germany.
I’m surprised you actually had a terminal arrival. My previous flights into Frankfurt from Tampa (Lufthansa), Philadelphia, Washington all has runway exits and then a bus. Very disappointing. Anyone know why this and sometimes Munich does this?
@ Jason -- Frankfurt is notorious for remote stands, so it really is luck of the draw. I assume gate assignments are scheduled based on a variety of factors, though I've never really been able to make much sense of it. When flying into FRA I expect a remote stand, and then I'm pleasantly surprised when I get a gate.
Thank you for that review.
Those are the same operational its predecessor Eurowings long haul had. Euro Disco was supposed to have less of these as it was streamlined more into the main LH brand as with Edelwise and LX.
After reading this review i absolutely have no plans to fly them. It's not that their prices are cheaper than other airlines so i'd only fly them if i had no other options.
Thanks for the review. For me, the problems with operational reliability would rule out Eurowings already. The rest looked very similar to classic Lufthansa to me, which is fine.
Your pain makes for a more entertaining review, so thank you for that! Good to learn that Eurowings business is best avoided unless it's an incredible deal.
I always find it surprising that rubbish business class often is the same price as the excellent ones. In many things in life mediocre and poor products are cheaper.
indeed - i agree that sometimes the 'rubbish' business class is same price as the more excellent classes - one the reasons I enjpy following this insightful travel blog is Ben's candid honesty to help me plan my own flights
>> on this flight the catering is not pleasant and service seems slow / drawn-out
Of course it's subjective, but I vastly prefer this seat over most of the "more private" options. I'll take sitting next to a stranger over cramming my size 12s into a size 8 shoe box.
Honestly sounds a lot like Lufthansa, slow meal service included. Our 10:15 pm from Toronto years ago finished meal service at 1 am. The only difference I see is that the crew on euro wings were friendly instead of cold
Yes, to me it read like a typical Lufthansa flight too, specifically the very early start of breakfast service.